Convo #10: Melissa Goldstein & Natalia Rachlin
How the Mother Tongue co-founders handle care
Melissa and Natalia are the co-founders of Mother Tongue, a biannual print magazine that explores modern motherhood and all of its complexity. It’s not about kids or how to parent them: it’s about the nuanced lives we are living—as mothers, and much more. Here’s how they each approach care in their families.
Tell me about your family. Where do you live? How many kids do you have?
MG: My family lives in a suburb outside of Los Angeles called Palos Verdes. It’s me and my husband and our two kids, a 7-year-old son and a 3-year-old daughter.
NR: We are a French + Danish-American family living in Houston, Texas. We moved here from London in 2018. It’s me, my husband, our eight-year-old son, and our four year-old daughter.
Who are you other than a mom? What do you do for work, what do you do for pleasure?
MG: I’m the co-founder of Mother Tongue Magazine with Natalia Rachlin, which really is work and pleasure. Through this project I get to meet a lot of incredible people and talk about subjects I’m passionate about, like what it means if you don’t identify as a mom first and foremost, and reproductive rights and most importantly, pop culture memes.
NR: A woman, a journalist, a partner, a spouse, a sister, a daughter, a long-distance friend, an overthinker, a wannabe florist, a sometimes-runner, a daydreamer, and a fast walker (and talker, for that matter).
I’m also the other co-founder of Mother Tongue, and a freelance writer. Making MT with Melissa is the mainstay these days: it’s relentless–and incredibly fulfilling, and we wear so many different hats in the process of putting this publication together. When I have time, I try to squeeze in an article or two from my previous life: before starting the mag, I worked as a journalist covering art, design and interiors, and I’ll never totally be able to let that go.
As for pleasure: crime series, dinner parties, walks, milk chocolate, my family, a dirty vodka martini (with extra olives), cats, art, alone time.
MG: Okay Natalia did such a good job answering that question I feel the need to jump back in here: I’m also a little sister, a daughter, a spouse and a friend (who calls friends on the phone and leaves too-long voicemails even though voice memos are by all accounts the preferred method of communication). I’m a consumer of high-low television, a person with an inflated sense of my bartending abilities and a dark chocolate connoisseur who tries to stay calm in the face of the ever-mounting evidence that all of my favorite brands contain high levels of cadmium and lead.
Do you currently have regular childcare?
MG: I do. I have a nanny who has been with us for 3 years who watches my daughter when she’s not in preschool (it’s summer now but this past year was her first year in school and she attended two mornings a week, from 9am to 12pm, which is pretty much not at all?). Our nanny picks up my son from elementary school and also drives my kids where they need to go in the afternoons, which ranges from speech therapy to soccer.
NR: Both my children are in school full-time. This past school year was the first one where they were at the same school, which has been a game changer in terms of drop-off/pick-up and holiday logistics, as they’re finally on the same schedule. They stay for after-school programs the whole week except Fridays, when we pick them up at 2:45 and take them to swimming. Otherwise, it’s usually pick-up around 4:30, 5 if there’s a lot of traffic or one of us is running behind.
What about it is working, and what isn’t?
MG: I work from home, as does my husband, so the line between available and not available is kind of nonexistent? I’m so grateful to have the complete privilege of regular childcare and the flexibility to be physically present when I need or want to be—and, at the same time no one has enough space and boundaries aren’t a thing really at all? Which is crazy-making for everyone I think?
NR: My kids have incredibly long days, and I do have some serious guilt about that, but it’s also the only way we can make it all hang together in terms of our workday, and our sanity, considering we are far away from family / support network. That said, all-in-all, at the moment it’s a pretty smooth set-up, which is a huge privilege for which I am wholeheartedly grateful.
How much is it costing you every month?
MG: More than our mortgage, which, if I’m super honest, we really can’t afford.
NR: Our kids go to a French-language private school, because we really wanted to supplement the language element while we were in America. It’s a serious expense for us, and one we look forward to foregoing when we eventually move back to Europe, but I will say, compared to private education on the West or East Coast, here it’s basically a two-for-the-price-of-one deal.
How did you handle childcare before they were 5?
MG: Both of my kids attended preschool and we have worked with nannies on and off since I went back to work after having my son, when he was four months old. My parents live near to us now and help out often too, especially at the start of the pandemic.
NR: My youngest was in a small preschool from age 18 months, before that she was home with me, longer than intended actually, because … pandemic. In London, when we just had my son, he was in full time nursery from age 18 months … before that we phased it in, 2 days a week, then 3, etc.
What childcare model did you grow up with? Did this inform your own decisions around childcare?
MG: My mom was a stay-at-home mom and was really “there” in every way. It was a pretty traditional setup—my dad was the breadwinner (though he was also very involved with me and my sister) and my mom was the caretaker and homemaker, including pancakes for breakfast (even during the week!) and a snack waiting for me after school and a seemingly always immaculate house (with white carpets). She was always a source of unconditional support.
I think the model she offered was a little daunting because it all felt quite selfless and I am pretty attached to my own comforts and ambitions—and very ambivalent about the domestic responsibilities that can come along with being a mom. She set a really high bar and I think I’ve always felt that that bar was not reachable for me, but she also really normalized the idea of finding your own thing and making time for it (for her it was animal rights and I did see her prioritizing that when I was growing up—she had her own nonprofit and lectured in schools so my friends thought she was a crazy cat lady which I was really proud about).
NR: I went to a small Jewish pre-school in Copenhagen for like, 5 hours a week or something, and according to my mom, she hated every minute of it. I would get dropped off at my grandmother's house every Wednesday, but aside from that, my mom was always around and very involved in raising me and my older sister, especially as my dad traveled a lot for work. But it was also a different time: ‘involved’ didn’t mean shepherding to soccer and guitar and gymnastics and making a perfectly balanced snack while always having a Dr. Becky approved response to every stressful situation: it just meant being in the same place, not necessarily even doing something together, but just knowing that you weren’t alone. I think about that a lot–I feel like my kids really need to learn to just be, knowing that I’m here, and accessible, but it’s also not my job to constantly cater to them. It’s interesting reflecting back on my European parents raising kids in America in the 1990’s, and now history is repeating itself in my own little family …
We moved to the US when I was 4, and then I started in PRE-K full time … and when I was older, around 10, my mom started her own business. She was still the one picking us up every day, but she definitely had less time, which coincided with us having less needs. I grew up alongside her business, and I think that has shaped me profoundly: seeing her build something from the ground up, and what came with that, the good and the difficult.
My husband, meanwhile, was raised by two busy doctors, and was in nursery from very early, which is common in France. In Denmark, too, most children are in nursery full time from age 1 – and so when our kids were very young, we opted for daycare, rather than a nanny (which definitely feels more common Stateside), because of both cost and mindset: we liked the idea of something that feels a bit more collective or communal (even if it’s still totally Capitalist in terms of accessibility here).
Have you looked to other mothers as a guide when making these decisions?
MG: I definitely look to my sister and my business partner (Hi Natalia!) and my friends—most often it’s to validate a decision I’ve already made, or commiserate and alleviate the guilt of a decision that feels like it was the “wrong” one.
NR: My mom, my sister, Melissa, and other friends–most of us all have very different child care situations, and I think the overall conclusion is that nothing is perfect. My oldest is going into third grade in the fall, and we are now entering a phase of thinking beyond just “childcare” and now thinking hard about “education” and environment - and what we want that to look like for our kids as they’re getting older. It’s a whole new can of worms, and one that I think will precipitate us leaving Texas in the next two years …
What would your ideal work & childcare arrangement look like?
MG: On the childcare front, I think it would be some sort of free or highly subsidized outdoor school within walking distance from my house that ran all day long (with minimal disruption for vacations) and incorporated extracurricular activities so afternoon driving wasn’t a concern. Then my home office setup would really take off!
NR: Solid local public school within walking distance of home, where I don’t worry about their safety (hi again, Europe!). Interesting after-school activities some days (but not over-scheduled), and other days, time for us parents to pick them up, and do not much of anything, together. In this ideal scenario, I still have the ability to work from home (which I have done for the better part of ten years now) and continue to enjoy and appreciate the flexibility that comes with that, and become better at managing the lack of boundaries that also comes with it.
What's one thing you'd definitely get done if you had just one more hour of childcare?
MG: A leisurely shower.
NR: I’d love to say a run, though truthfully probably just another hour of work?
Is there one caregiver in particular that has meant a lot to your family?
MG: I remember so clearly the first time I saw my son out in the world with our nanny Adela and not with me—she was pushing him in a stroller and they were crossing the street on a crosswalk and I really felt like my heart was outside of my body, just like this precious life-sustaining piece of me out on its own with cars whizzing all around it. It was the craziest, most vertigo-inducing feeling and yet I was insanely grateful when I realized I trusted this other woman with keeping my heart safe. She was so loving and patient with me in that first moment of coming back into the world, when you’re figuring out how to function as a person in the world again, and I’ll never forget it.
NR: To all the women who have a cared for my children over the course of the past eight years: they have all played their part and left their mark (and they should all be paid $1 million dollars (minimum) for spending their days caring for these profound little people who are being left with a very complicated world). I am so incredibly grateful for their time, warmth, and wisdom, in awe of their patience, and humbled by the good fortune my children have had to learn from them. I hope we can as a society get to a place where we all acknowledge that care work is what makes the world go ‘round, and it should be supported and respected as such.